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SamizBOT's avatar

BAP would have less of an audience if COVID had not conclusively proved that we do indeed live among a great mass of easily frightened untermensch that were willing to sacrifice the youth and anything that makes life worth living in a fit of deeply feminine hysteria.

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Astral's avatar

Fantastically well written and well argued article. The thing that to me terminates this entire endeavor, even before what it turned into on Twitter, is the nullifying paradox of “we need to breed higher specimens” and “won’t someone think of the poor cowardly losers who can’t get laid?!” The sexual market place IS eugenic, you can’t lament how it leaves some men out in the cold and then advocate for a breeding program. It shows unseriousness, which became clear eventually anyway, and it really makes me wonder why he bothered to address the incels at all in his dissertation. It truly makes no sense to me

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Jonathan Cioran's avatar

Thank you for the compliment and your observation about Costin's double think here is interesting and a good critique imo. I mean, i'm assuming he's being a bit Straussian here and just putting on a show of sympathy and false solidarity for his fans. Most of whom he likely despises. He's stated in the past (I believe in an old Phora post) that he believes only the top 2-3 percent of men should be allowed to breed and the rest should be encouraged to indulge in homosexuality, which is likely closer to his true position imo.

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Astral's avatar

He didn’t have an audience when he wrote that tho, beyond whoever he present this to. Ultimately this project is Straussian, and also neoconnish, which is also Straussian, but this selective breeding thing and the apparent Zionism he espouses is even MORE Straussian than the neocons. All of these arguments have already been presented before tho not as sophisticated or intelligent. But they’ve been saying all this since the 60s

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Jonathan Cioran's avatar

actually (assuming we are talking about the same passages here) all of the passages I quote in this piece in which he talks about sexual marketplace dynamics and the plight of sexless young men etc come from the new foreword, which was not part of the original dissertation. Which was released after his rise to prominence.

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Astral's avatar

Everything in the section “the crisis of sexual inequality” that wasn’t in the original?

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Jonathan Cioran's avatar

yes, I just doubled checked. It's all from the new introduction (which is very much worth reading in full fwiw).

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Astral's avatar

Ha! So he is catering to his audience. Even LESS reason to take any of this seriously haha

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JS.Hardy's avatar

The idea of an undercurrent of eugenicism and even Nordicism among intellectual elite Zionists is one hell of a can of worms (Epstein and Maxwell fit the bill pretty well). Maybe to them National Socialism isnt the enemy because of the eugenics and racialism per se but because of the direction it was pointed (besides the obvious exclusion of jews making it incompatible with Zionism, the Nazis weren't really that Nordicist and it could be argued the policies were aimed to breed large numbers of a more peasant caste white people, from a BAPiam perspective)

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amin's avatar

How is sexual marketplace eugenic?

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Astral's avatar

How is this even a question

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amin's avatar

Very easily. Eugenic usually means increaing number of genes responsible for desirable traits in population. One can disagree with what women find attractive. For example if they choose bugmen in beaurocracies instead of uberchmench driven by daimon

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Astral's avatar

That isn’t the sexual marketplace that is the internal hierarchy of the corporate ladder, it’s an entirely different environment with different motivations

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amin's avatar

And? How does it make it eugenic? Men's matrimonial value comes mostly from his socioeconomic status which nowadays get bugmen

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Astral's avatar

You’re a incel

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Commander Nelson's avatar

So what do *you* think the West should do when Africa starves? It's easy to criticize but your own answer is unclear.

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SamizBOT's avatar

Exactly. We're CURRENTLY living through a massive demographic change that has destabilized and worsened America. What's gonna happen when it's fifty million starving Africans showing up? Do I view them as fellow Christians while ignoring that my children's home is being made permanently worse?

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Javier Velazquez's avatar

No. The moral law never asks you to sacrifice your proximate duties for remote ones. But it does command you to trade some wealth, attention, and ingenuity so that distant innocents do not perish needlessly. That is not altruistic suicide; it is civilisational prudence. Unchecked famine breeds pandemics, terror networks, and great-power interventions that will reach your doorstep anyway.

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James's avatar

BAPs writing is seductive but it’s important to realize that he does entertain the idea that he has a dybbuk in his head. He writes about it in a 2019 article that was recently republished. Les Wexner has also discussed his dybbuk guiding his various choices in life, it is perhaps a feature of Israel appreciators.

One man’s dybbuk could be another’s reasoning mind, grand vision, or another’s schizophrenia. However it’s very telling that BAP openly acknowledges that there is a demon that lives in his head.

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Chris Coffman's avatar

Scintillating article—very well done, indeed!

While reading it, I paused to find my heavily marked up and annotated copy of the 2023 edition of “Selective Breeding and the Birth of Philosophy”.

Deep in Chapter 3 I found this section on how to establish the national machinery of eugenics: “Overt tyranny in the name of nature and breeding—like Socrates’ student Critias attempted—is not possible and causes an even greater conventional or democratic reaction . . . . He doesn’t have the necessary remove from convention to really understand how to seduce and subdue it in the long term . . . I would claim that not only do Socrates and Callicles agree fundamentally on the ‘problem’ . . . but even on the solution, which is to ‘rule in the city.’ It is only that Plato is much wilier about how to achieve this and that, in fully understanding the requirements of rule and therefore of legislation in the highest degree, he realises Callicles’ aristocratic radicalism must be spiritualised; and similarly the form of (rhetorical) warfare for which Callicles is eager must be spiritualised or intellectualised.”

My handwritten comment on this passage is “Is CIA on the way to achieving this on behalf of the Billionaire Class?”

We seem to have come to a similar landing on BAP and what he indicates about our future.

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Curiosités Classiques's avatar

Well written. You ironically turn the table on Costin: while you prudishly refrain from exposing the psychological motivations behind his philosophy-fetishism, you do manage to pull back the veil on the state of mind of an overly sensitive geriatric millennial. I’ve always liked CA—like an estranged little brother whose unlikely insights repeatedly floor you.

But practically speaking, what would you have us do? You haven’t refuted him. You’ve only pointed out some of his personality flaws, his likely disdain for his supporters, and the political machinations of his alleged funders.

Should the West embrace open borders? Should it fall back on the meek, self-effacing, self-terminating Christianity of the 19th and 20th centuries in the face of an assertive Umma? Should embryo selection be outlawed? (By the way, the Collinses are in for a surprise...we literally have no idea of the long-term consequences of these ridiculously low-yield, high-risk genetic manipulations.)

It would be unfair to ask you to clarify your position without stating mine:

A firewall must be created between civilizations...or at the very least, between the Christian West and the rest. Whatever tech and branches of the scientific tree have been voluntarily suppressed must be disclosed and ontologically assimilated. The sexual market is already eugenic; nothing needs to be done about the evolutionary bottleneck we’re traversing;except to automate, and quickly.

The humanity that emerges from this bottleneck will be naturally different from what came before. That’s healthy agent–arena conformity. Just in time for the end of the eon.

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amin's avatar

We're not in bottleneck

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Bryce E. 'Esquire' Rasmussen's avatar

You tend towards rather loaded and weighted words for a neutral observer. I believe the term is known as 'slant.' often used in journalism. As far as reality, the situation is fairly dire with nearly the entirety of Europe overrun by Muslims and various browns and blacks. All of the usual crimes are way up, provided by those selfsame people.

The solution of course, is being enacted currently. Not slaughter, but simply by removing the unwanted elements and sending them back home. The Muslims for instance, provide a difficult conundrum. a 1400 year old extremely vile 'religious' system by now nearly bred in. Inbreeding and genetic defects common, as it is in Indians. It's possible what you call Gay Space fascism is simply the need to maintain a healthy population (which, by the way, RFK is assisting in.).

What is your goal here? You appear to attempt to paint the current powers in the US in a certain way, primarily through your use of those self same loaded words. A primary focus seems to be words that imply emotional content, not what you call reality or facts. Do you have an overall goal or just a series of complaints? Not to say the article isn't quite well written, it is.

Do you propose a solution or shall you simply continue to point out Gay Space fascism?

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Will Martin's avatar

You Sound Like A BAPNigger.

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Bryce E. 'Esquire' Rasmussen's avatar

Aren’t you the precious little street slang wizard.

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Will Martin's avatar

I'm right and you know it, BAPNigger.

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Viddao's avatar

I still find it befuddling that Costin can write a whole book about selective breeding in humans (which in my opinion includes aristocratic arranged marriages), but yet rumor has it that he is gay. What is he thinking? Is he actually gay, or is it just a wild rumor?

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M S's avatar

The modern “selective breeding” will just be a bunch of tech bros creating gene-edited test tube babies. So I guess it doesn’t really matter if he’s gay.

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Will Martin's avatar

I have sources in Brazil who've confirmed Costin's taste for the bussy. BAP is a buttfaggot and he takes money from the Buttfaggot Peter Thiel.

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JS.Hardy's avatar

Hes bisexual so in theory that wouldnt stop him from breeding

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micheal's avatar

Many Christians have lost what The Bible really says and who is who among the descendants of Abraham. We should have no problem with maintaining our ethnic borders even to mass starvation in other lands and vehemently opposing Zionism and the seed that spawned it, as well as the gay and space stuff.

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Dissident Spook's avatar

Overall a good review, but I'm curious about the Thiel link.

Firstly I'm not quite online enough to know about any personal link between Alamariu and Thiel, so if someone could enlighten me I would appreciate it.

Secondly I'm not sure that the argument based around eugenics can necessarily be linked to the sort of transhumanism advocated for by Thiel and his ilk. Of course one can argue that there isn't a clear 'line in the sand', but I still found that to be somewhat of a stretch. Again, I'm unaware of any personal link which would obviously insinuate a bit more linkeage than I'm seeing.

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GMT's avatar

Well the kind of sex Peter Thiel has doesn’t generate children of any kind.

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Will Martin's avatar

Costin Alamariu is a Buttfaggot Nonce.

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James Argyle's avatar

If classical Greece had such a good eugenics system, and eugenics is the central thing, why did it fail? It was clearly in its twilight before Christianity came along.

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Zeeb33's avatar

Eugenics is selective, meaning it’s predisposed to slow growth.

The competition in the neighborhood (Persians, Romans), scaled up rapidly by incorporating conquered peoples, giving them a quantitative advantage.

In short…quantity can beat quality.

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James Argyle's avatar

Interesting, I had always thought Greek disunity was what caused their defeat to the Romans. So there were more Romans than Greeks in the 2nd century BC, do we know the numbers?

And the average Greek was stronger and smarter (not just better educated) than the average Roman? And the average 2nd century Greek was smarter, healthier than the average Greek during their golden age?

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amin's avatar

I don't know any data and because of migrations modern Greeks are quite mixed so I wouldn't look at modern population. But generally Greeks were ethno-nationalist while Rome imperialist. There were factions that fought for better status of people in Italy but imperial altar needed sacrifice.

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Gods Drunkest Driver's avatar

This amounts to little more than petty moral posturing.

You were right to identify that many of BAPs ideas aren’t can’t necessarily christian in the traditional sense, but this lazy and thoughtless categorisation does not constitute an argument.

Is a hideous ghoul like Hannonia, evil because he wants his offspring to escape their fate of being as ugly as him?

Are Europeans evil because they want to maintain their identity as a distinct and separate entity despite Africans unquenchable desire for social welfare?

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Jonathan Cioran's avatar

okay you goober, I will respond. A few things to consider:

1) just out of curiosity, how can my identification of Costin's ideas not being Christian (which, fwiw, was in no way the point of the piece) be 'right' but also 'lazy and thoughtless' all the same? I get the sense here that you are just slinging around random pejoratives because you are mad.

2) you asked: "Is a hideous ghoul like Hannonia, evil because he wants his offspring to escape their fate of being as ugly as him?" Yes, Hanania is evil, but not because he wants his offspring to not be ugly. Rather he is evil for the method by which he chooses to avoid this potential outcome. In the same way someone who robs a bank is not bad for wanting to not be poor but for, you know, robbing the bank.

3) regarding your last question, the funny thing about this is that Costin doesn't really care about maintaining 'racial purity,' usually only the concern of downwardly mobile 'wignats' (to use a bit of a dated term here), in spite of the fact that he would like to murder Africans at an industrial scale. Rather he is concerned largely with the creation of an elite class who, in his view, alone have lives worth living. He is on record stating that most men (97 percent) shouldn't be allowed to breed and instead should become homosexuals (like himself) in order to ensure only the best genes get passed on. Hate to break it to you but this 97 percent almost certainly includes you and everyone you know. Put another way: Costin in not your friend.

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Gods Drunkest Driver's avatar

Dear Jonathan,

we could address the first two of your remarks, but I find the third the most interesting. In which, in essence, you claim that BAP is not my friend because he sets the bar too high.

IMHO, such issues best separate the wheat from the chaff.

You may not believe me, but some people are motivated not by petty personal desires but are drunk on the grand visions of the future.

The time of slimy GDP-oriented conservo-cucks is over, I represent something different entirely.

I'm true and unapologetic race-realist, I strive for the constant improvement of biological life on Earth, as best exemplified by Homo sapiens of Aryan extraction over the span of the last 3,000 to 3,500 years. In other words, this is not about the "budget deficite", "trans-women" in sports, or what Starbucks writes on the coffee cups during the Christmas season, or whatever else slop accounts focus on ATM.

Even if I were excluded from an optimal breeding policy on the sole grounds that my genetic material has been proven to be subpar, which I seriously doubt, it wouldn't change my opinion in any way.

As a side-note: your constant fixation on homosexuality when criticizing BAP is not only provincial, uninspired and extremely predictable for an east European peasant, but also highly likely indicative of your physical unfitness.

Consider if you want to look for some other way to insult BAP, maybe his physique, maybe his lack of action, IDK.

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Jonathan Cioran's avatar

It is rare that I get to engage in discourse with such an enlightened and obviously sophisticated aristocrat of the soul who is not driven by 'petty personal desires' but by 'grand visions'! Thus I feel compelled to reply once again. I admit I admire your extreme dedication to the coming race (or perhaps just your own online persona's humorously inflated ego) to the point that you would even sacrifice your own bloodline in its service! Such willingness to sacrifice is extremely rare today in the age of the 'last men' (which you are obviously, certainly, extremely, definitely not in any way!) All that being said your response is incoherent slop that feels like it was generated by a first generation AI that was trained exclusively on altright twitter posts from 2015. What I'm trying to say is, well... I am unconvinced you have the ability to string together coherent thoughts and thus find actual dialogue with you to be essentially impossible. So good luck with your Übermensching or whatever it is exactly that you do

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Gods Drunkest Driver's avatar

“Jonathan Cioran is immunized against all dangers: One may call him lazy, disingenuous, slop-poster, bantu-maximiser, Third-Worldist, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat.

But call him a PEASANT and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out".”

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Reinhard Wolff's avatar

I think you actually need to prove Thiel connections to Bap and Redscare if you are gonna talk so much about it

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Reinhard Wolff's avatar

Wasn’t the reason for the end of eugenics in America the development of vaccines?

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